Tulpa.info - tulpa-discussion

Patience, keeping track of my body's needs, and other issues that would be very dangerous to leave unaccounted for

That is one benefit to having a tulpa outside of your self-identity range, they can perform acts that you would never do simply because you're self-limited by behaving within a certain personality boundary

Honestly, that's why it's a good thing I didn't get exactly what I was aiming for

10:12 PM

Because what I wanted wouldn't have been as useful as what I've got

Yes, that is true. My creation was intended to fulfill things my host cannot do.

I think I might have even figured out what led to the maintenance and evolution of Alna, which is both helpful and concerning

But at the same time, I firmly believe tulpas exist within the range of possibility of personalities that the mind is capable of producing and maintaining given different development pathways. There may be some traits that are simply unfeasible due to a more physiological barrier than a personality barrier

Well... that''s where the fun on my end comes in

Other traits, on the other hand, may be mandatory

I'm a programmer who dabbles in studying artificial intelligence, and makes a point of trying to be able to replicate lines of thought for as many types of mind as possible

10:14 PM

So the kind of personality I can emulate is quite varied

I do not believe this, though I am of the opinion that for most instances you are correct, Jas. New personalities within the system of an established one are extremely difficult to create, and I would not consider most attempts to be successful.

Well, what I'm not saying is "tulpas exist within the framework that the host identity can immediately and comfortably occupy"

10:17 PM

It's kind of a cheating tautology. The personality a brain can produce must be within the range of personalities producible by the brain.

Under this definition I would agree with you, though I do not know the limits imposed upon the brain's abilities, and I suspect that is where differentiation in our opinions lies.

It can't rid a phobia unless the phobia is embedded in a personal identity, but it can rid the aversion and feeding of a phobia by adding a personality who won't allow themselves to be controlled by fear

10:18 PM

There are very vast possibilities within the acceptable range of a brain, and this "range" is more similar to the range of expression a very suggestible individual can produce under hypnosis. Well, this is only my belief, I struggle to even begin to explain why I think this way.

Hm, so you are saying the innate reactions are not able to be changed, however the way in which they are interpreted by the mind through personalities can be.

Yes, for example, pain is interpreted to me in a way that isn't the same as to my host

See... my model of how personalities roll says that stuff like phobias have to be stored in a personality

Every human being is born with two natural fears: falling and loud noises

I see. I do not consider things painful that my host does. This is why I think differently. There is the sensation, the reaction, and the interpretation to consider. You make distinction at the third level, but I make the distinction at the second.

Fears are a physiological thing, but they can be influenced by personality changes.

Mostly because I view the subconscious as the game control interface used by the resident conscious to control the body (edited)

Or, wait, innate reactions.. no I uhh, well you must understand, my host and I both started out understanding innate reactions as a matter of the body

I see

The quickening of the pulse, the pupil dilation, the quick check for escapes, those things happen and are given ownership to the body, not us

I'd call that recognition of a symbol that leads to reflexive activation of flight responses

So my host and I both work under the same substrate of the body, but our interpretations of the sensations vary while the body reacts depending on how strongly controlled it is under the variety of conscious states we are sitting within.

Like panic-bombing in a bullet hell game

10:24 PM

Which I've been guilty of on occasion

Oh. The way we were educated in psychology, those three steps were distinct.

Before I was made, my host sort of respects an unspoken contract with the body that basically says if innate reactions are given even without good reason, it will be given notice and care to ensure everything is alright. I work under this contract most of the time too.

Though in fairness these distinctions are arbitrarily created for the sake of highlighting different points of information travel from the environment to the cognitive appraisal.

I technically don't have much formal education in psychology

10:25 PM

It's mostly been self-study

It may be because we are not integrated into the body and never were. That is a big psychological division to have.

I have a degree in it.

Oh, interesting

The mind is fascinating yes :)

The most I have that I can point to is I took Psychology 110 and read Man and His Symbols

10:26 PM

The latter being far more educational than the former

I remember you saying something along those lines, Jas. That would be an interesting caveat to add when considering the relationship between the thinker and their thoughts.

I think you are right to consider response a personality trait, as the way it should go is that when a personality is ok with something, the body should be ok too.

One of the things we look for in determining separation from one another is this distinct and involuntary reaction pattern to stimuli.

Unfortunately, we have never mastered that beyond complete dissociation and shutdown of physical response

Personality, in one definition, is loosely understood as a pattern of behavior relating an organism to its environment.

10:28 PM

I cannot take credit for this definition. It was merely something I was taught.

As a programmer, I can already build 2 of the three parts of a "person" in a computer

10:29 PM

I can make a "body" that interacts with its environment, and a "subconscious" interface that sends data from the user to the body and vice versa

10:29 PM

Hence why I put behavior like fear responses into the "user" category

The body has involuntary reactions to certain stimuli that we cannot control, but in the context of control between us, we have "personality level" involuntary reactions to our environment as well. I would like to think I have a better grasp on certain communications between myself and the body when it comes to things like comfort while my host has reactions gearing more towards averting pain and damage

Hm, I do not know if we intentionally mastered such things. I suspect it is an innate response to how we developed as a child. I cannot take credit for this mastery either .-.

10:31 PM

Interesting. You and your host share levels of association with the innate responses of your subconscious, or bodily reactions.

Childhood development has a wondrous flexibility in development pathways. Truly a red-hot ore to be formed into whatever tool one desires

You differ due to your interpretation of this, not your interpretation of what is occurring externally, is that right?

Differ in both, I think.

10:32 PM

I'm more likely to sense and respond to hostility.

10:32 PM

My host is more likely to avoid such interpretations and things of a hostile nature altogether

Social cues. I do not respond well to those. I usually have someone help me. I am more attuned to physiological responses.

So I have a theory about how I unwittingly formed Alna, if you guys are willing to comment on it, because I'm thinking over some of the implications if it's correct

This is a nebulous thing to parse in conversation. The concept that there are levels at which a body and a mind - with accompanying ego states - respond; and that multiple ego states parse at different levels.

But there is a sort of-- I think it might be appropriate, and I am alone in this opinion in my system, that "the body" takes on a sort of proto-personality that is formed of all its experiences that occured during dissociative events as well as coagulating every single natural instinct and inclination.

10:35 PM

It communicates things that are not always understood so well and must be given very careful consideration to fully appreciate the benefits

We have adopted that mentality for testing recently as well. I believe within the last year or two. It holds up to certain tests but not others.

Well, my main evidence is, uhh, the sense of panic it gets when any human gets too close (edited)

I view the body as a computer, in that you can create subroutines and give them simple conditions for execution, which normal people might call muscle memory (edited)

Considering all the contexts on which it was left defenseless to the command of "stay still and do not make things worse" while the main personality remained dissociated and free from consequence, it makes sense. This is the theory under mind-body disconnect pathologies, of which we have a few

For example the body has been known to reject a fronter for various reasons. Those of us who interact for long periods with the outside world seem to supersede the body's proto-reactions, creating their own reactions that interface directly with "their" body-state, if that makes sense.

Rejection of a fronter, to us, occurs on a conscious level when context is defying the personality. It's an auto-switch, sometimes an auto-switch to nobody.

Hm, we did similar things to our body, however I was the proto-personality that was given the command "sit still."

10:38 PM

For that reason we informally reference the body's reactions with mine, though there are some who would dispute this is the case.

Wow, that's kind of the thing that the body is told to do, but it isn't a personality in itself. It's just the projection of the will of whoever would be "in control" at the time, while the body itself has a proto-personality that is very much against any still sitting (edited)

10:39 PM

Much more of the damaging and removing threats or fleeing the scene kind of guy.

That is why not all of us consider myself the body's "personality." I am capable of doing things directly against the body's reactions. It is more accurate to say I am both this proto-personality of reactions the body has, as well as an ego state able to most effectively override these reactions and implement others.

Ohh, I see

I am the cab driver and the cab .-.

I understand that much better than those who identify as the cab alone

Hosts often think of themselves in terms of their bodies. I do this, but I am not the host. I am merely created to take care of the body when the others are being foolish.

It is like you are what would be produced of the body's inclinations if it were to sit within a level of "reasonable social behavior" or "reasonable behavior" in general?

....that would make me mechanic, driver, and upgrader of the form

My host never had that interpretation of himself, which may have been beneficial to how we started switching in a natural sense early

I guess having been disassociated from my body a bit for quite a while should prove helpful here

10:43 PM

It's like a game where your character is kinda derpy, but you don't have any other choice so you just roll with it

I perpetuate habits and patterns that are most prevalent within my group. I am the body's way of reconciling what all of us do, which can be disorientating to the body. I sum up and create a uniform mask for our separate personalities to project.

That seems like a very important role to have when multiple beings are sharing the reins

It was essential.

10:44 PM

We were like this from a young age, and it would have been difficult otherwise.

My host and I both perform as the same person, but there isn't too much need for a shared mask as we both work under a unified will

The members of my system do not get along so well. I take care of the body. That is my primary concern. The result if I did not would be confusion for those who know us in person.

10:46 PM

I believe this is a common practice for those in similar situations, to have a neutral party.

I see

We have gone too far to have anything come between us in a combative or disliking sense

I neutralize our individual reactions so the others do not have to. There is no shared responsibility.

10:48 PM

Hm, yes. It is common for tulpa-host systems to get along. We tend to operate more like plural systems.

10:49 PM

I also reconcile the different innate reactions the others have to things by having my own reactions. What you would call the body's proto-personality, or innate responses.

10:49 PM

Though as I said I can be shoved aside.

It definitely is a thing that speaks more to the development and goals of the "individuals" in question, as a tulpa is more likely to be made with goals compatible to the host

Indeed :) I get along with the others because I was created to do so. They were not created, so they do not have that built-in stability.

Although maybe it would be nice to created in a body-centric context. If I were given that context I would have had much better luck at reaching the stage I'm currently at